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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:57 am 
Colonel

Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:51 pm
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Location: Central Vermont.
This is a topic that is dedicated to the design and constructions of a "Silver Bullet Homemade", essentially the perfect rifle beam weapon.
I want ideas from anybody and everybody who has a brain.

In the past, I have used Blender-3D to make computer generated designs of water-weapons, so I could really SEE what the homemade would look like even before I build it.
I could use it for this project as-well, constantly changing and posting the design as its thought out.

So, I think the first thing we need to do is decide on what to aim for.

Range,
Size,
Price,
Type, (CPH, APH etc)
Water Load,
etc.

So fire away, give us all your ideas.



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:01 am 
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Or all of them? Shouldn't there be a statistic called "battle-practicality" that kinda encases everything? Anyway, we might as well discuss...I don't think discussing will get us far, but it's good to set priorities straight. No more large homemades for me.

There are a few more (ease of use, capacities, stream speed, etc.), but aiming for battle-practicality and everything in general should help.

The silver bullet will be different for everybody. But here are my requirements, in order of priority:
Dropoff--Can't have any. Only CPS will work.
Size--As small as possible. 18" max length, I'll think about the empty weight.
Range--60 feet at least, 50 feet with a smaller nozzle. No dropoff.
Reservoir capacity--Should be fairly high. No backpack.
PC capacity--Not too important, if it's CPS to reduce dropoff.
Price--Forget about this, it's a silver bullet homemade. :P

It also depends on what type of role you want the gun to fill. The Blastmaster 660 and the CPS 2000 are great in their own rights.

So, I'm banking on a small CPH. 12" long, 6" tall.
- 2" wide, 10" long reservoir on top
- externally tracked pump underneath--5" pump stroke
- 2" wide, 6" long cylindrical PC in between the pump and reservoir
- grip between the pump and reservoir, but behind it
- a trigger system like Drenchenator's, so you can tap with your hand on the pump

As well as a larger CPH. 18" long, 6" tall.
- 2" wide, 16" long reservoir on top
- externally tracked pump underneath--8" pump stroke
- 2" wide, 12" long cylindrical PC in between the pump and reservoir
- grip between the pump and reservoir, but behind the PC
- a trigger system like Drenchenator's, so you can tap with your hand on the pump

Then a more long-ranged weapon. Something like the above, but a larger PC (if necessary, as those PCs are already huge) for larger streams and more importantly a narrower pump.

And then maybe a 6" pistol of some sort. Not that a stock gun wouldn't work.

As you can see, there really is no silver bullet homemade. What I suggested probably would be too big still. The barrels don't need to be any larger than 3/8" or 1/2"--and smaller barrels mean smaller, easier-to-turn ball valves.



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:08 am 
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<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Or all of them? Shouldn't there be a statistic called "battle-practicality" that kinda encases everything? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm working on that. It is kind of complicated since Battle Practicality changes for progression and changes for battlefield type. As suggested on SSC, perhaps a "line" of silver bullet homemades to cover these variables.

As posted on SSC, my needs are not very detailed and are pretty basic. The gun needs as much range as possible in as small a package as possible, with a quality pump and a well-balanced pc[s] and reservoir.



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:12 am 
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Just saw the thread at SSC. I made a prototype so-called "Battle practicality factor" formula... :P

In truth, all it does is narrow down the stats in guns to the most basic and essential ones for determining battle practicality. That said, I probably messed up in inclusions and exclusions and in weighting each factor.

I might consider adding the values instead of multiplying them, allowing for better weighting.



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:05 pm 
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As posted at SSC, the formula is of severely limited use without including factors beyond just water gun stats. If you just base it on stats, you are only finding the most practical guns for certain types of games, places, and levels. The majority is excluded. This would not have been an issue as recently as last Spring, but now we're in an era where wars concepts are much more relative, or at least they should be. Nearly everyone ignores the newly created parameters that separate water war styles, which is mainly my fault because I write so damn slowly, but without them there are big holes.



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:07 pm 
Colonel

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Ok, I'm now switching focus onto the actual technology behind the gun.
Throw us all your ideas, wether wild or sane.



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:57 pm 
Colonel

Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:51 pm
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Ok, I've drawn up a base model for us to work on.

I copied some of its configuration from Dux's newest homemade.

Image
Side.

Image
Top.

Image
Front.

Image
All.

The two lower chambers are duel 3"x18" reservoirs.
Above them is a 3"x12" CPH pressure chamber, the 1" nozzel and a 1/2" track-pump.

Give me your opinions and changes to it, I'll add stuff that sounds like a good idea and we'll see how it looks then.


Last edited by WaterWolf on Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:41 pm 
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The CPS pressure chamber can only be connected at one end, usually.

At any rate, I've found it's hard to transfer concepts to reality.



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:09 am 
Colonel

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I've drawn up a V0.2 design with the appropriate changes from suggestions that I received on this forum and others.

Image

The reservoirs are slightly longer and the threaded cap has been reduced in size.
I've rearranged the trigger in accordance with your suggestions.
The pump is now a standard type.
You can now see the internals of the CPS PC.
I hadn't said anything on my reply with the first design, but I had been going to leave the PC unglued for exactly the reasons that were later stated.
This PC is also not glued in and can be taken apart to access the LRT.

Keep up the replies, the Silver-Bullet is taking shape.


Last edited by WaterWolf on Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:20 am 
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CPS tubing expands both lengthwise and...widthwise? That's how the gauge on CPS blasters work--the piece travels down the gauge because it's on the end of the tubing. The tubing can expand to up to 850% of its width and 300% of its length, according to one source, although that weakens it quickly (which is why they limited the CPS 2000 Mk.2 and CPS 2500 expansion).

If you prevent the tubing from lengthening, various problems occur. I presume you haven't seen Ben's post at SSC yet, but he explains it in more detail.



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:09 am 
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Hmm, I had seen his post, but I thought the chamber was long enough.
How much further do you think the PC shell should be lengthened?



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:50 am 
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Fix up the stream lamination. The pressure should be directly exerted on the ball valve, not have to make turns to reach it. I'd make a diagram but I don't have time to get the text to work.


Last edited by CA99 on Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:24 am 
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Second that. There should be a straight line from the pc to the nozzle. I'd also take 1/3 of the length off the LRT itself [a pc that large is going to devour water]. Are those 3" reservoirs? If so, that's going to be one hell of a heavy gun. No problems with balance, just plain dead weight.



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:55 am 
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Hmm...don't know why I didn't see the second diagram. Was it added in while the post was edited?

You might as well go for linear flow by turning the PC the other way--unless you want a pull valve for the trigger. You can also move it back a bit, over the check valve, making the entire thing more compact. But such a large PC isn't necessary--it's constant pressure and we can tap/pump.

Is the pump tube supposed to be narrower than the regular tubing? Oh, and there should be a cap in each reservoir--it would be hard to fill otherwise.

Besides some proportional issues, this is a homemade possibility. That said, the silver bullet really depends on what you're looking for in a homemade. This looks fine though.

EDIT: The whole linear flow issue, in my opinion, seems a bit overblown. I mean, you're gonna get far more turbulence from the nozzle system than from anything else. It's pointless to try reducing turbulence from somewhere way back, where there's high flow, when it's inevitable that eddies and later turbulence will be generated at the nozzle.

That said, if you want a laminated stream, you should do it the right way. Look at Ben's SuperCannon II--it has a near-perfect nozzle, a high-flow ball valve, linear design, and no bottlenecking other than at the nozzle. Most weapons use relatively-poor nozzles that render all the above features useless.


Last edited by Silence on Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:00 am, edited 1 time in total.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:49 am 
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For the PC case, it would probably be better to make it lighter using a ligher case. (such as using aluminum vent pipe) I agree about shortening the PC, 6" of tubing should suffice.

If 3" reservoirs are too heavy, it's probably better to switch to something else.



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